# Setting up metrics for decisions (Q&A) **URL:** \ **Category:** Choosing metrics\ **Created:** [January 16, 2026, 3:56pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578 "2026-01-16T15:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bryan](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/bryan/32/448_2.png) [@Bryan](https://forum.zurb.com/u/Bryan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 3:56pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/1 "2026-01-16T15:56:36Z")
We’re jumping into @mike_giannakopoulos’s, [Defining and Tracking Success: Crafting Meaningful Metrics](https://mike-giannakopoulos.medium.com/defining-and-tracking-success-crafting-meaningful-metrics-7c3f34851943). He argues that metrics only matter when they reflect a shared definition of success and help your team make better decisions (instead of stuffing them in dashboards). Mike’s core point is that metrics should start with intent. Before you measure anything, you need to be clear about what outcome you are trying to change, why it matters, and who it matters to. Without that, metrics become noise, dashboards grow, and teams still argue. ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/helio/original/1X/039f5f2d2374ed1a9f7e52e71b93120b0e8068fd.jpeg) Another big idea is that metrics are tools for learning… we shouldn’t use them for scorekeeping. → Good metrics help teams ask better questions, spot tradeoffs, and adjust direction. → Bad metrics create pressure to “hit the number” even when it leads to the wrong decisions. ### **Let’s jump into the discussion:** He frames a good metric as: - Measurable without mixing too many things - Tied to a real outcome or step - Shows what to do next - Easy for others to understand - Worth keeping and using over time **So here’s the question I want to explore:** Your article focuses on setting up product metrics, and I know many of us are trying to create business impact. How do you work with stakeholders to agree on the right metrics in the first place? Let’s dig into setting up metrics with [Mike Giannakopoulos](https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-gianno/). Mike is a [featured Helio author](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/helio_uxresearch-productdiscovery-marketresearch-activity-7348000388249243648-ulxH?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAAALmwBU147HvXsQ2KaDlBrMFXo2f4BBGw). Looking forward to finding some answers! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/bryan/32/448_2.png) [@Bryan](https://forum.zurb.com/u/Bryan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 3:57pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/2 "2026-01-16T15:57:20Z")
Great to chat with you today Mike! I enjoy your no-frills approach to getting to product answers. Here’s my first question: **When you’re aligning on metrics with stakeholders, what’s harder: agreeing on the outcome, choosing the signal, or trusting the metric enough to act on it?** ---
**Author:** ![mike\_giannakopoulos](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/mike_giannakopoulos/32/913_2.png) [@mike\_giannakopoulos](https://forum.zurb.com/u/mike_giannakopoulos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 4:06pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/3 "2026-01-16T16:06:06Z")
Hello, nice to be here! Thanks for featuring the article and kickstarting the session with a question! > **When you’re aligning on metrics with stakeholders, what’s harder: agreeing on the outcome, choosing the signal, or trusting the metric enough to act on it?** Aligning with stakeholders usually means having a discussion so we have the flexibility to figure things out. Still the hardest part is aligning on the outcome. To make this work we usually have enough initial metrics (what’s currently going on? what’s the status today?) to build a story around the expected outcome; so how the story we have around the feature aligns with the expected goal. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/bryan/32/448_2.png) [@Bryan](https://forum.zurb.com/u/Bryan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 4:08pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/4 "2026-01-16T16:08:24Z")
> [@mike\_giannakopoulos](#): > > To make this work we usually have enough initial metrics (what’s currently going on? what’s the status today?) to build a story around the expected outcome; so how the story we have around the feature aligns with the expected goal. Ok, so the idea is that we’re going through this metrics exploration before aligning with Stakeholders. **Is the idea that you are going into these conversations before the outcomes have been baked?** ---
**Author:** ![mike\_giannakopoulos](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/mike_giannakopoulos/32/913_2.png) [@mike\_giannakopoulos](https://forum.zurb.com/u/mike_giannakopoulos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 4:16pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/5 "2026-01-16T16:16:45Z")
> [@Bryan](#): > > Ok, so the idea is that we’re going through this metrics exploration before aligning with Stakeholders. **Is the idea that you are going into these conversations before the outcomes have been baked?** That’s a good one! I’d say “it depends”: **There are cases where we’re talking about a smaller feature or improvement** where we already have data for but not a solid story to start with. For those cases we usually view the metrics and peripherals internally with the team before talking to more stakeholders, so that we have an idea for the outcome. I recall such a case, where we wanted to improve usage/playability of a specific content type at HackTheBox (HTB) and we internally figured out what’s the metric in question, then extrapolated some data from other HTB content with “good usage” to propose a specific outcome with our key stakeholder. We then met, shared the reasoning and data gathered and worked together to define the final goal. **There are other cases where things are more unshaped** where we need collaboration with more stakeholders into shaping the proper metrics and outcomes together. That was the case on building the north star metric we use at HTB. In that case, we shaped the initial questions and ideas with more stakeholders and figured out the steps together before reaching to the final outcome. In that case the outcome alignment was easier as we built the story together. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/bryan/32/448_2.png) [@Bryan](https://forum.zurb.com/u/Bryan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 4:20pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/6 "2026-01-16T16:20:05Z")
> [@mike\_giannakopoulos](#): > > In that case, we shaped the initial questions and ideas with more stakeholders and figured out the steps together before reaching to the final outcome. In that case the outcome alignment was easier as we built the story together. So this idea of using data to help tell stories…stakeholders are looking for product and design leaders to drive these metric conversations, but they can be tricky because they have their own business metrics. **This might be a simple question… but how many product metrics should we talk about?** ---
**Author:** ![mike\_giannakopoulos](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/mike_giannakopoulos/32/913_2.png) [@mike\_giannakopoulos](https://forum.zurb.com/u/mike_giannakopoulos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 4:31pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/7 "2026-01-16T16:31:13Z")
> [@Bryan](#): > > This might be a simple question… but how many product metrics should we talk about? As few as possible! Ideally around 5-7 on each level of story I’m trying to tell. I’ll refer back to another article I’ve written [Elevate Your Product with Metrics: A Quick Guide for Aspiring Leaders](https://medium.com/@mike-giannakopoulos/elevate-your-product-with-metrics-a-quick-guide-for-aspiring-leaders-61d6d248b25a). In that article I describe different level of metrics. Again a true example from HTB, we have a **north star** story consisting of 5 metrics that form a funnel of the overarching story/question: “Are users using the platform?” Each step/metric is fully actionable by more than one teams - so not only Product or Platform are responsible for a metric; Customer Success, Sales, Marketing, and Customer Support, even the team building our HTB VMs are needed depending on the step! Now there’s a deeper level, where you pick a specific step from the north star funnel to check more details. That’s another dashboard with a different set of metrics drilling down more details/info. Again on that level we’re trying to keep the metrics between 5-7. You get the point 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/bryan/32/448_2.png) [@Bryan](https://forum.zurb.com/u/Bryan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 4:46pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/8 "2026-01-16T16:46:47Z")
> [@mike\_giannakopoulos](#): > > Now there’s a deeper level, where you pick a specific step from the north star funnel to check more details. That’s another dashboard with a different set of metrics drilling down more details/info. Again on that level we’re trying to keep the metrics between 5-7. Right, we featured your article on the topic. This feels like a simple question, but it trips a lot of teams up. Great stuff! ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/helio/original/1X/862cae4a68c148e4939eb3fcd6626ce3b99fe214.jpeg) > **[Layering Product Metrics for Clear Storytelling and Decision Making | Helio...](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/helio_layer-product-metrics-to-clarify-stories-activity-7415066765275267073-kOJk)** > > Layer product metrics to clarify stories and decisions. > > We love Mike Giannakopoulos’ take that metrics should help you understand, explain, and improve a product by telling a clear story with data. Metrics matter once you turn them into goals with... **Pivoting a bit, how do you align how customers feel and behave with these metrics. Do you supplement them with qualitative feedback and research?** ---
**Author:** ![mike\_giannakopoulos](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/mike_giannakopoulos/32/913_2.png) [@mike\_giannakopoulos](https://forum.zurb.com/u/mike_giannakopoulos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 4:58pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/9 "2026-01-16T16:58:31Z")
> [@Bryan](#): > > Pivoting a bit, how do you align how customers feel and behave with these metrics. Do you supplement them with qualitative feedback and research? Truth be told, we didn’t have the time to engage with user research and sessions on these metrics so far. Still, we’re having research sessions with users that are based on specific scripts of questions. What we’ve done in the past to back up metrics with qualitative feedback is build a table list with each row having items for: - **Metric of interest** , what we interested in measuring - **Question to ask** , what’s a good question to cover this metric - **Positive trigger words, phrases** in an answer that are signaling a +1 around that metric - **Negative trigger words** , phrases in an answer that are signaling a -1 for the metric - **Reasoning of relation between question/metric/triggers** , as this list grew it was hard to recall everything so we needed to properly document so that we evaluate findings after the interview. With that in place and a few sessions ran we then got back to build the outcomes table from all sessions. If I recall correctly it didn’t quite go as planned as it’s difficult to quantify an interview back to a metric leaving any discussion nuances on the side. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/bryan/32/448_2.png) [@Bryan](https://forum.zurb.com/u/Bryan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 5:04pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/10 "2026-01-16T17:04:02Z")
> [@mike\_giannakopoulos](#): > > Truth be told, we didn’t have the time to engage with user research and sessions on these metrics so far. Still, we’re having research sessions with users that are based on specific scripts of questions. This is a problem many product and design leaders have, and a perfect use of UX metrics to get fast, quick feedback to align with their product metrics. It’s what we’re helping people accomplish with Glare. ![Screenshot 2025-09-17 at 3.55.13 PM](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/helio/original/1X/291239a47faf0ae9a5eba17d1b9b534468ad1e5b.png) When you can’t afford deep qualitative work, **how do you avoid mistaking what’s easy to measure for what actually matters to customers?** Many companies run into this problem! ---
**Author:** ![mike\_giannakopoulos](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/mike_giannakopoulos/32/913_2.png) [@mike\_giannakopoulos](https://forum.zurb.com/u/mike_giannakopoulos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 5:26pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/11 "2026-01-16T17:26:16Z")
> [@Bryan](#): > > When you can’t afford deep qualitative work, **how do you avoid mistaking what’s easy to measure for what actually matters to customers?** That’s a tough one! So far in my experience we always had a feedback mostly triggered by some form of incoming user feedback, so we know that we’re working on solving a real problem. Usually a part of that feedback holds some insights on expected usage, thus and expected metric to use - like having a part of the initial question from the article directly from the user. That’s our premise and story for building a metric for that feature. Additionally, since we always base our roadmap and work on incoming features it means that there’s some desirability behind each request. This means we’re having incoming feedback post release from Customer Success/Support or direct feedback channels that we consider as a validation or not of any work done. I’ve got examples on this one: - Just today we got some user feedback on a feature released yesterday, validating the UX and happiness of the user. That one came through Customer Success. - For the last month we’ve got incoming feedback on a design decision we’ve made and we weren’t pretty certain on how to move next. That also came from Customer Success and is driving an improvement we’re working on. ---
**Author:** ![EricZ](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/ericz/32/692_2.png) [@EricZ](https://forum.zurb.com/u/EricZ)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 5:41pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/12 "2026-01-16T17:41:43Z")
Loving the details of the conversation here! @mike_giannakopoulos What was the process like to identify key product metrics, and does the team have a shared reference / database of these metrics or is it just shared negotiation? I’m wondering how the team develops a shared language and understanding in these negotiations. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/bryan/32/448_2.png) [@Bryan](https://forum.zurb.com/u/Bryan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 5:45pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/13 "2026-01-16T17:45:19Z")
> [@mike\_giannakopoulos](#): > > That’s a tough one! So far in my experience we always had a feedback mostly triggered by some form of incoming user feedback, so we know that we’re working on solving a real problem. Usually a part of that feedback holds some insights on expected usage, thus and expected metric to use - like having a part of the initial question from the article directly from the user. This is a great answer, thanks for sharing it. I like how you anchor metrics incoming feedback and treat customer signals as the starting point. Using Customer Success and Support is a great way to create an ongoing validation loop that feels both practical and grounded (especially when deeper qualitative work isn’t always possible). I appreciate you taking the time to respond and share concrete examples @mike_giannakopoulos. Thank you! We’ll keep this thread open for others who want to build on this or share how they handle similar constraints in their teams. ---
**Author:** ![mike\_giannakopoulos](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/mike_giannakopoulos/32/913_2.png) [@mike\_giannakopoulos](https://forum.zurb.com/u/mike_giannakopoulos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 5:57pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/14 "2026-01-16T17:57:13Z")
> [@EricZ](#): > > What was the process like to identify key product metrics, and does the team have a shared reference / database of these metrics or is it just shared negotiation? I’m wondering how the team develops a shared language and understanding in these negotiations. Hi @EricZ thanks for the question! I’m the one usually kickstarting the exploration for key product metrics. Depending on the level of product metric we’re talking (High, Mid, Detailed) I try to iterate with more people sooner or later. For high level metrics I do that pretty early when I have a rough idea in place, for mid a bit later so that the idea is more refined, and with detailed ones I spend some more time investigating before I engage people. Still the most important aspect is building a story to share your metric. A story has the benefit that the metric sticks and resonates. Also, a story is easier to follow and contribute to. Finally, with the story in place, and if we’re talking about an important metric (High or Mid) we build an accompanying doc with some definitions, or embed the definitions in the created dashboard. ---
**Author:** ![EricZ](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/ericz/32/692_2.png) [@EricZ](https://forum.zurb.com/u/EricZ)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 7:25pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/15 "2026-01-16T19:25:23Z")
> [@mike\_giannakopoulos](#): > > Finally, with the story in place, and if we’re talking about an important metric (High or Mid) we build an accompanying doc with some definitions, or embed the definitions in the created dashboard. It seems with this approach you develop pattern and precedent initiative by initiative, which no doubt helps to eliminate ruts and stale thinking. Have you noticed certain stacks or pairings that help identify key user needs in your stories better than others? How have you seen this practice develop over time? ---
**Author:** ![ben](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/ben/32/442_2.png) [@ben](https://forum.zurb.com/u/ben)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 7:32pm UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/16 "2026-01-16T19:32:26Z")
This was a really fun read @mike_giannakopoulos! You can tell you know your stuff > [@mike\_giannakopoulos](#): > > Aligning with stakeholders usually means having a discussion so we have the flexibility to figure things out. Have you had problematic stakeholders that failed to have these sorts of discussions? ---
**Author:** ![mike\_giannakopoulos](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.zurb.com/mike_giannakopoulos/32/913_2.png) [@mike\_giannakopoulos](https://forum.zurb.com/u/mike_giannakopoulos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 9:00am UTC](https://forum.zurb.com/t/setting-up-metrics-for-decisions-q-a/578/17 "2026-01-18T09:00:53Z")
> [@ben](#): > > Have you had problematic stakeholders that failed to have these sorts of discussions? Of course there are such cases. When this happens I try to have a doc with all the reasoning in place for more people to see when they see fit. As the goal is to always move forward, we proceed with the metric & story; whenever there’s an occasion to share the story and metric - due to a change in behavior - we share a story around why we see this behavior and how this metric helps us understand it.